No Linkup for You!

Here is a guy, who supposedly values Integrity. Yet, isn't one of the most important ingredients of integrity fairness? How can someone call himself fair, if he's insisting on being the accuser, jury, hudge and hangman? Firinn has created his own little universe and is playing god - albeit not a nice or reasonable one.

I joined BAL in April after I moved to the Bay Area, and immediately started hosting 2-3 events per week. When I tried to introduce myself to him a couple of months later, he refused to shake my hand or talk to me. Just stared me down like a dog. In july, when I was setting up another event he threw me out, because I didn't want to tell people to meet me on the 'West side' of Bart or 'the side of Bart, that's closer to Valencia St. I thought it was incredibly inconsiderate to expect people to have to know the exact layout of the mission, if they wanted to attend the event. I just deleted the event, as I figured arguing with him would get me deleted. So, I was then told that I was being unreasonable anyway and got the boot. I enjoyed BAL, but I refuse to cower when I had done absolutely nothing wrong, in fac,t even set up an event in Atlanta, when I was on a business trip, to help him get things going in that city. He seems to project behavior, that he's been accused of, on other people. He's the unreasonable one, he's the one without integrity.It's a shame.

Sad, sad, sad. This is a tragic tail of the guy who was ostracized by everyone -his school & his family - getting back at everyone in a grand fashion through his Social Architecture.

I was a Link UP leader leading 2-3 events/week. I never got any kudos - nor did any of the other leaders. If we didn't lead events, he would have no Linkup. To me, it's quite unreasonable to make someone pay to volunteer, as long as they're leading lots of events and get good reviews - which I did.

Hmmmm....he scans all emails and people's passwords. I've never heard of any computer programmer of any worth who scans people's passwords. Knowing that most people use the same password for everything, this man could go in and actually log in to people's bank accounts and real email accounts. He doesn't seem mentally balanced and this scares me even more.

Fear - Him.

Hi Chad,
I'm the R.N in the article who was tired of camping with her dog, the rest of that story is that I was camping with > 60 friends in October of this year through a linkup event I hosted, yet this was not included along with the other fact. As for your statement saying no host has ever gotten kudos, I have gotten them, both via email and on the phone.
No one is perfect, but the quality of my life has improved vastly after joining BAL, and when it comes down to it this a private club and the club owner does have a right to set the standards.

Wah, Wah, Wah. His group, his rules. Play nice and he'll be nice back to you. Really. So he doesn't have a high tolerance for flaky people or people who are full of b------t. Frankly, a group like this was needed. Walk in his shoes a bit and you'll understand why he's a stickler for accountability. I know. I used to moderate and host most of the events at another pre-BAL online group. Little reward and lots of aggravation from inconsiderate, ill-mannered boobs. The reason I kept it up was I had friends who were a part of what became a community. Now most of us are BAL members and host through BAL. My BAL events sometimes also include other non-BAL members. It's never a problem with BAL or Firinn, so long as you play by the rules. Let's face it. Lots of people in the Bay Area are transplants with no roots yet established in their respective cities within the Bay. BAL is a great way to establish some roots. People complain that LA is phony and shallow. But the Bay Area is often times worse because of people's lackadaisal attitude towards commitment. Is it any wonder that the Bay Area is a great place for singles . . . singles who can't commit? But that's another topic. Long live BAL.

Katrina wrote:'Wah, Wah, Wah. His group, his rules. Play nice and he'll be nice back to you.'
I disagree, I tried to introduce myself at the tribal karaoke and he refused to talk to me - not nice - in fact, incredibly rude, as BAL would be nothing without those who are host. In fact, he was the host at that event and he wouldn't talk to anyone, just sat in the corner, upset about something. Anybody else would have gotten thrown out for bad hosting. He can't even come close to he standards that he sets for others.

The bottom line this author completely missed is that thousands of people treasure their Linkup memberships and are happy to abide by very reasonable rules of basic social etiquette to be a part of it. It's really a shame this author only listened to a handful of destructive malcontents with an axe to grind - sounds like the definition of hack journalism to me.

I've been a proud Linkup member and frequent event host for several years now, and I think the system and the community it has created are a very rare and special thing. Because of the Linkup rules, people who qualify as members can have fun meeting polite, mature new friends with similar values and common interests. I tried other internet-based social groups before joining Linkup, and found myself unpleasantly exposed to some very scary and undesireable people in a very unsafe/unsupervised major urban internet environment. If basic rules of conduct are paternalism, so be it. They work. I'm really glad the oversight is there so that Linkup can be safe fun for the majority of us.

Hmmm...very interesting how some of you seem to want to overlook the fact, that Firinn
doesn't just throw people out because they don't follow the rules, but that he will
throw people out because of something that he personally doesn't like, like someone not agreeing with everything he says, someone who will abide by all the rules, but who
may say or do something that he doesn't agree with, not having anything to do with rules. Pretty bad business man. In my case I refused to be rude to people by expecting them to know the layout of the mission. I would have been a very bad host, if I had let him keep the changes, that he made to my event.
Instead I tried to be considerate and was thrown out for that. He can't even follow his own rules on how to be a host. It's so convenient to overlook that. But then there were/are only 20 or 30 of us in total, who were willing to host events every week, while most of the 7000 sheople liked to just sign up to prepackaged events.
Those, of course, would never raise his temper, because they don't take the risk of having any kind of contact with him. As a host he will check every sentence you write when you set up an event and I've met people who got threatened to get thrown out, because he didn't like their grammar.

Integrity is what you do when noone is looking, when there's no punishment or reward attached to it and if you do things, because you feel it's the 'RIGHT' thing to do.
BAL doesn't measure integrity as he claims. It's like punishing or rewarding a little child - That's all it is. I think the system is great and I was a huge supporter, even gave him some marketing ideas, which he supposedly was even implementing. I have no problem with BAL, but I have a problem with Firinn, who treated me like a piece of sh*t,when I was setting up events for him several times a week, followed the rules and noone had one complaint against me. In fact, I had a lot of people come up to me and tell me how much they loved my events, because they were different than the standard fare and that they would start searching out my things. I've started my own meetup group and have met many, many people who got thrown out for the wrong reasons.

Point taken, Michaela.

I've had several encounters with Firinn. There was one event, his how to host event, where he was agitated because the restaurant that was catering the event was more than an hour late. And he was busy trying to find a solution to the problem. So yeah, he was extremely preoccupied at that time, and yes, he did cut me off during a Q and A. But he's also been generous about my suggestions and actually has a good sense of humor. He even danced with a bunch of us at an event that BAL hosted at Fort Mason. I found it sometimes difficult to be constantly "ON" when things go wrong, or when I'm PMSing. People don't always have a good first impression of me. Then they see me in a different light and come around. Now if I'm a habitual bitch, then that would be a problem. I'd be wearing my grinch hat right now instead of my santa hat.

Don't write off BAL because of one neg. experience, even if it was with Firinn. I'm sure your purpose for joining BAL is to meet other like-minded folk and do a lot of different things. BAL provides that opportunity with accountability. Good luck. We all strive to be the change we want to see in the world. Namaste.

And in regards to the comment about 'bad journalism'. It's funny how Firinn tries to make
BAL members believe now, that any negative remarks in this article came to light because he was so open and shared contact info, when it was actually some of us wronged people that initiated the article and Lauren Smiley wanted to make sure that she got everybody's
side. She wanted to get Firinn's and everybody else opinion, so that she could balance the article. I think she did a great job, as she only reported the facts as they were told and let the readers make up their own mind.

HEY – I JUST GOT KICKED OUT!!!!

Amy, (I mean Firinn) has remove me from the Bay Area Link-up website.

As the host of Bay Area Link-up’s Beer Socials and Personal Growth groups, I found that I was constantly at odds with Firinn and his wacky ways. I compare the experience to dealing with a mentally disturbed parent or sibling. You have to tip-toe around so as to not get them upset. In Firinn’s case, there were a number of issues that can throw him into a tizzy.

Perhaps most disturbing is Firinn’s use of fake names like George Chin, Amy and others to staff the Tech Support and Customer Service departments. I encountered these odd personalities a number of times, and each would reply in the same RUDE manner that Firinn was famous for, (actually it was obvious to everyone that it was Firinn.)

Geez fella, get a clue.

I hosted some of the largest and most successful events with BAL, but generally found the flaking philosophy unfair and, for the most part, unnecessary. Frankly, I rarely use it. The vast majority of people were professionals, and I think in the entire time I was a host, I flaked perhaps 3 people. Firinn’s philosophy has hosts flaking people for everything with no exception. If you couldn’t make the event because you had a death in the family, illness, personal crisis - - - screw you – you’re FLAKED. That just doesn’t make sense.

From a marketing perspective, Firinn’s philosophy is flawed. He has no committee to review behavior, policy or the ongoing fourm within the organization. How can one person be the police, judge and executioner for thousands of people across the country?

This is a one-man operation, and it shows.

A quick look at the other cities and you’ll see few if any participants. These locations are dismal failures. There is no one to marketing or promote the philosophy because it’s nuts. As for the San Francisco Bay Area chapter of BAL, it’s successful in part because it’s a self perpetuating entity and people like to party. Firinn has luckily latched on to people’s need to get-together. He offer’s a shell to post your event, and a select audience – nothing more. If you get in his face, you’re gone.

I was kicked out of the group because I didn’t follow the flake guidelines. I asked to speak with Firinn personally to discuss my point of view and how we might resolve difference, but I never received a response.

Cliff
cdunning@gmail.com

I just checked my email that I use for BAL and other non-work stuff. Firinn gave a heads up about the SF Weekly article even before I found out about it. He gave the author of the article near open access to info most other people would not be so willing to divulge. He even gave the names and contact info of ex-BAL members and people whom he clearly knew would not be his biggest supporters. In my opinion it took a lot of guts and honesty for him to do this. All in all, I thought it was a fair and balanced article. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised to see the number of BAL members rise.

Firinn and I will never be close friends but, as a transplant to the Bay Area, I am extremely grateful for the organization he created. It gives me the chance to discover new aspects of the Bay Area to delight me and new people to enjoy them with. Noobdy forces me to be a member and nobody needs to.

Sometimes the 'flake factor' seems useless and silly, such as when you are having a happy hour with 30 people. But I've also had to wait outside a venue with a ticket to hand to a BAL member who never showed so I am glad that there is some mechanism in place to encourage courtesy.

katrina,
it wasn't Firinn, who gave the 'disgruntled' ex-member contacts to the journalist, but the ex-members initiated the article. he just likes to make it sound as if it was all his openes - it's called 'spinning'. His email to BAL members was sent last night after 9pm. The article was online in the afternoon. He had already read it and knew what was written. If he's so open and fair about everything, then why is the journalist no longer a member right now, when she had been until this article? Again, his email was just spinning it, to make it seem as if he's being all open and fair and letting people know ahead of time, when he's just trying to do 'damage control' retroactively.

While I have not been active with Linkup for a while due to the fact I don't have as much time for such things due to work, when I was active I had the chance to meet Firinn a few times and he seemed like an OK guy to me. I organized some events on the site and they went great, and attended many more and it was nice to know if I was going to take the time to show up to something, that it'd be more than like 3 people while everyone else flaked.

To all the critics who aren't on the site, I'd simply suggest this - one of the great things about the Internet is that if you really don't like something and how it's run, you can always go somewhere else or make your own. I'm not sure what the big deal about Linkup is or why it merits this big expose, since other sites (like match.com which has paid people to go on dates with members to keep them paying their monthly fees) do funny stuff too. If linkup isn't your thing, join something else. If the linkup model is so evil, then it will die, and if it isn't evil and horrid, then it will survive. Or another site or sites will take its place, sit along side it, or whatever. It's really not a big deal, kids.

God I was on link up and hosted over 30 events and was kicked for changing my profession for every event. Which I did as a bit of a joke and as a ice-breaker for people coming to my events. Some of them were a sausage stuffer, processed meat taster and another school bully. I was kicked off for doing this and gone was my profile, photographs and getting in touch with customer service is a nightmare. Oh and Elvin is my buddy and I gave him an open invite to all my events, I wonder did this have anything to do with it.

I have been a member for about one year and have done many things I wouldn't
have done on by myself. I've met friendly people & controlling event hosts. What I
do not care for are the privately posted events that show up on the public portal
when they are not filled. Also we hear about private events (not posted publicaly)
eventually from other members. I don't understand why this is part of the site. I didn't sign up to be excluded. There are a lot of members stuck in their high school.

I attended a number of events at BAL and enjoyed them. I was always careful to avoid the posted rules.

But...the site allows you to search for people who engage in activities you do. I did. It also posted email addresses. I assumed that meant you were allowed to contact them. I was kicked out because I did contact fellow musicians trying to set up activities. When I was ejected I called to see why and was told that it was against the rules to actually email people.

Talk about flakey

For those who in still BAL who feel like the anointed few...well good for you. I am glad that there are a lot of other organizations which do not put on airs and pretend to some sort of perfection in selection

'I Wouldn't Belong to a Club That Would Have Me As a Member' Famous words by Groucho Marx

I've gone on a few things with my girlfriend as her guest. Most people are alright. It's just like the general public in these online groups so I expect not so much. With linkup the activities tend to be more interesting, at least the ones she drags me to. The people seem more educated. If Firin's system works to weed out the terminally flaky people out there then I'm all for it. My girlfriend will contact the other girls she's met on linkup to do other stuff outside of linkup and never has a problem. If she's happy then I'm happy. So those of you griping out there, find yourself another group or go make one. Also, if you meet someone you like and don't get their number during the event, then you're stupid. It's your loss if you didn't get your friends' numbers or email addresses in the group and you get booted out of the group.

Hi everybody! Firinn here. Thanks for all your comments. It's great to see such a lively discussion of the importance of our keeping the commitments we make to each other.

After all, what's more important than whether you can actually count on other people? The entire basis of the Linkup system is the simple idea that if you give people a clear reason to keep their commitments to each other, everyone benefits; when people have confidence in each other, all kinds of wonderful things happen, some of which are quite surprising.

The first discovery is that people get happier. No real surprise there, because it's definitely nicer when people follow through on their pledges to you. You can also feel good about keeping your pledges to other people, and helping to create a world, however modest its dimensions, in which people have more reason to feel confident about each other.

The major discovery, the great surprise on Linkup, is that people become more creative, and exercise much more initiative when they have confidence in each other. It's not that people take greater risks. It's that when people have confidence in each other, everybody's willing to try more of the stuff they've always wanted to, but were afraid to try because they thought other people would let them down.

This is what makes Linkup fun: people trying out all different kinds of events, and having the confidence to do so, because they know the whole idea is that we should all actually keep the commitments we make to each other.

To address a related issue, and to be more blunt, Linkup is also fun because you can have higher confidence that Linkup staff have worked very hard to identify and exclude the spammers, screamers and assorted dickwads so that you don't have to meet them.

But returning to the first issue, that of accountability, what actually is more important, what is most important of all, is whether you can count on youself: whether you can count on your own character, your own honesty with yourself, your own awareness, and self-control, your own ability to see a situation in its many aspects--and the discipline with which you choose to do so. This leads me to all the delightful attacks on me personally.

I have some important and shocking news for you. I am a flawed person. Sorry about that, but just imagine my own shock on discovering this one morning, about 46 years ago. At first I tried to deny it, but over the ensuing months and years, the evidence began to mount, and has continued to mount.

Perhaps you've had a similar experience. It's disappointing. You don't want to believe it. You struggle with it. You work on yourself. You have small successes, and sadly discover new flaws, new faults. You work on those. It's not easy, but you keep going, trying to become a better person, because to not do so would be the greatest fault of all.

Eventually you may discover that some of your faults are simply intractable, no matter how much effort you put into fixing them. If you're honest with yourself, you ask yourself whether you're just trying to let yourself off the hook with some lame version of "That's just the way I am." Cop-out, cop-out, cop-out. Ick.

So for the sake of self-respect you work for a few more years on the flaws on which progress has always escaped you, and eventually you may just give up on fixing them. But then another idea occurs to you; perhpas you could try to make good use of a flaw--just try to understand under what circumstances, if any, all the energy contained in that flaw can somehow be put to good use.

This is my only answer to those people who, rather than reasonably discuss the importance of our keeping our commitments to each other, and rather than examine their own behavior, are more comfortable screaming about someone else.

Finally, I just wanted to mention the obvious:

Linkup, and the ideas on which Linkup is based, will continue without me. That has always been the plan. So then you're left with a single question, which is universal and will not go away:

Isn't it better for everybody when we keep our commitments to each other?

Thanks, everybody.

Hi everybody! Firinn here. Thanks for all your comments. It's great to see such a lively discussion of the importance of our keeping the commitments we make to each other.

After all, what's more important than whether you can actually count on other people? The entire basis of the Linkup system is the simple idea that if you give people a clear reason to keep their commitments to each other, everyone benefits; when people have confidence in each other, all kinds of wonderful things happen, some of which are quite surprising.

The first discovery is that people get happier. No real surprise there, because it's definitely nicer when people follow through on their pledges to you. You can also feel good about keeping your pledges to other people, and helping to create a world, however modest its dimensions, in which people have more reason to feel confident about each other.

The major discovery, the great surprise on Linkup, is that people become more creative, and exercise much more initiative when they have confidence in each other. It's not that people take greater risks. It's that when people have confidence in each other, everybody's willing to try more of the stuff they've always wanted to, but were afraid to try because they thought other people would let them down.

This is what makes Linkup fun: people trying out all different kinds of events, and having the confidence to do so, because they know the whole idea is that we should all actually keep the commitments we make to each other.

To address a related issue, and to be more blunt, Linkup is also fun because you can have higher confidence that Linkup staff have worked very hard to identify and exclude the spammers, screamers and assorted dickwads so that you don't have to meet them.

But returning to the first issue, that of accountability, what actually is more important, what is most important of all, is whether you can count on youself: whether you can count on your own character, your own honesty with yourself, your own awareness, and self-control, your own ability to see a situation in its many aspects--and the discipline with which you choose to do so. This leads me to all the delightful attacks on me personally.

I have some important and shocking news for you. I am a flawed person. Sorry about that, but just imagine my own shock on discovering this one morning, about 46 years ago. At first I tried to deny it, but over the ensuing months and years, the evidence began to mount, and has continued to mount.

Perhaps you've had a similar experience. It's disappointing. You don't want to believe it. You struggle with it. You work on yourself. You have small successes, and sadly discover new flaws, new faults. You work on those. It's not easy, but you keep going, trying to become a better person, because to not do so would be the greatest fault of all.

Eventually you may discover that some of your faults are simply intractable, no matter how much effort you put into fixing them. If you're honest with yourself, you ask yourself whether you're just trying to let yourself off the hook with some lame version of "That's just the way I am." Cop-out, cop-out, cop-out. Ick.

So for the sake of self-respect you work for a few more years on the flaws on which progress has always escaped you, and eventually you may just give up on fixing them. But then another idea occurs to you; perhpas you could try to make good use of a flaw--just try to understand under what circumstances, if any, all the energy contained in that flaw can somehow be put to good use.

This is my only answer to those people who, rather than reasonably discuss the importance of our keeping our commitments to each other, and rather than examine their own behavior, are more comfortable screaming about someone else.

Finally, I just wanted to mention the obvious:

Linkup, and the ideas on which Linkup is based, will continue without me. That has always been the plan. So then you're left with a single question, which is universal and will not go away:

Isn't it better for everybody when we keep our commitments to each other?

Thanks, everybody.

Firinn is doing a great thing by holding people accountable and encouraging trust between people, which I think is a much needed thing in the world. So if people are kicked out of Bay Area Linkup for flaking, I applaud that. However, when people are being kicked out for other reasons that are based on Firinn's "perceived" impression about them -- that is not good -- that is one man's issues with trust. If you take into consideration that he grew up in a family that couldn't be trusted or counted on, it is understandable that he would try to create a world where he can control (by kicking out BAL members who have no possible recourse or ability to argue with Firrin) those who he believes he cannot trust. I believe that Firinn has used BAL to help him create a world where he feels enough power to protect himself and to validate what he already thinks.....that people have the potential to betray him at every turn. So he makes it his mission to fix those issues, which serves his subconscious need to protect himself. The problem is that in order for him to protect himself, he has to believe that nothing he does is wrong -- which is why he doesn't allow people to complain (or they are kicked off BAL). His actions have proved again and again that there is no room in his mind that his view of the world might be a bit skewed or effected by his past--where he learned not to trust.

I am a psychology student and someone who understands people. I have been a BAL member, have met Firinn, and have heard stories from friends about his acts of "banishment." His actions are not just toward a few--they are pervasive and have effected many innocent (I believe) people. In addition, I've had complete strangers tell me more scary stories about Firinn (at BAL events) that I did not solicit. Kudos to the Weekly writer who wrote this article....it's amazingly dead-on in its description of Firinn, and was able to expose a very accurate truth that many members of BAL are already aware of. I actually found this article hilarious and enjoyed the whole "Elvin Martinez" story with Firinn going after him like a dictator who has decided to eradicate someone he doesn't agree with. Elvin did not really do anything evil, Firinn -- I think you need to just look inside yourself and work on what's in there -- and stop trying to fix the rest of us, who aren't as bad as you think.

Hi again! I have some very sad news to report, especially for the big time ad hominem whiners out there:

Nearly all of the "rules" on Linkup were not invented by me at all, but were requested and in most cases invented by many of the 23,000+ members of Linkup. What we did during the course of the past fours years is have open meetings in which anyone could present and discuss ideas on how to make Linkup better. Most of these meetings involved only a few people who were strongly motivated, or had strong ideas, but some of the meetings were large, involving as many as 50 people. Most of the people who participated were active hosts, because hosts are on the front lines, know the issues, and are most strongly affected.

The discussions were pretty vigorous, and there were plenty of arguments. My approach in general was to let the discussion play out for the other people, before commenting in any way myself.

What gradually emerged from these discussions among dozens of people with varying perspectives was a set of guidelines which we felt would ultimately be beneficial to everyone. It was then my job to translate these social ideas into software, which I did at great cost to my posture, sitting at the damn computer day after day trying to translate people's ideas and thoughts and feelings into lines of code that would work under all kinds of conditions. It was hard work, and it took a few years.

We went through many different versions and refinements of the accountability system:

When we installed the first version, hosts began clamoring for some way to account for all the lame excuses people were giving them about not showing up at events. So we added that to the software.

Then hosts wanted a way to deal with people who said they were going to pay them for an event, but then didn't. So we added that to the software as well.

Then lots of hosts complained that too many people were signing up for events just to have a place at the event, "in case" they wanted to go, then cancelling casually when they found "a better event." This was wreaking havoc on the nerves and feelings of the hosts, so we revised the algorithm to include proportion of cancellations.

Then hosts got sick of people cancelling casually at the last minute, so I was under pressure to add a way to try to cut down on those ugly last-minute cancellations. Yeah, we added that to the software too, because hosts were yelling at me to add it.

Many other suggestions and requests also came in, sometimes to customer service, sometimes directly to me.

That's how it happened, folks. If you want to blame anyone, blame all the hosts who wanted to make things better for themselves, and for everyone else in the process.

The further sad news for the ad hominem whiners is that on a day-to-day basis I have almost nothing at all to do with enforcement of anything at all. Most of what happens regarding any "rules" happens within the software itself automatically, as a result of the collective requests and refinements initiated by hosts, which have been built into the software.

Have fun!

Firinn wrote: This is my only answer to those people who, rather than reasonably discuss the importance of our keeping our commitments to each other, and rather than examine their own behavior, are more comfortable screaming about someone else.'

That's the crux of the problem - you don't allow a discussion. You just terminate people. You are not willing to hear their side or look at the big picture, which a reasonable person would do. You have a great idea with BAL and the system works. But it's your human flaws, that make it so difficult. As you see, most people prefer to just sign up to events, and they will usually have no risk of having contact with you. It's the people who are willing to lead, that are at risk. Yet, it takes a certain type of person, who's willing to lead. Whether you call it 'type A' or whatever. But those of us who don't mind not being part of the crowd but forging ahead, are also less likely to have the 'yes, master! You're right, master' mentality, which is what you seem to require. You expect hosts to be leaders with a 'follower mentality' and that's a conflict, if you honestly think about it.

You don't allow discussion and only see things black or white, allowing you the emotional safety from people, because you can keep finding faults in people (whether real or perceived) and subsequently terminate them, whether fairly or not.) That way they can't question you. Hav eyou noticed how few people come to your events? They're afraid to be around you and getting terminated, because they may say the wrong word.

Firinn –

Glad to see that you’ve come out from behind the curtain. I think this article may have affected you more than you expected. You’ve been exposed, and your organization opened for inspection. Perhaps you’re wondering if some of your policies are truly effective, Democratic processes, or just single minded control features. Flexibilty is a key word here Firinn. Allowing others their point of view, and the ability to bend but not break your policies might be a consideration.

What I have a hard time believing is if you will hold true to your statement to,

… Reasonably discuss the importance of our keeping our commitments to each other…

I don’t think you have ever opened for discussion the decisions to banish people from BAL. I for one was summarily removed without the opportunity to speak with you. You simply removed me from the group without a thought for your actions. That’s just flat out unprofessional.

Comments?

Cliff

Just because someone is 'flawed' doesn't make them a bad person. We're all flawed or we wouldn't be here. We're here to learn and grow, and the only way to do that is to acknowledge our flaws. But a lot of times it's easier to just pretend that we don't have these imperfections and if we have a system in place that allows us to do that, we might just use that, even if it's subconsciously. That's what BAL allows you to do. You can just get rid of anyone, who might have possibly seen one of your flaws or will question you, and subsequently it will re-establish any kind of self-worth, that a conflict might have threatened. But letting others see your vulnerabilities can actually be a strength instead of a weakness.

You have people who are in your corner, even though they've seen your flaws. So, clearly 'appearing perfect' is not what you have to be to be accepted. But it's your own perception, that nothing short of perfect is good enough' about yourself, that lets you see things and people only in 'black or white'. Subsequently, you think of yourself as 'bad' if any flaws should be seen.

I've read 'Blink' and 'Tipping Point' as well, great books. But that split-second 'recognition' he's talking about in 'Blink' is based on a 'neutral mind'. Your perceptions are being filtered through the expectation that people will be unreliable, dishonest and will disappoint you. Subsequently, any variance from your perceived 'norm' is ground for 'fitting the bill'. I think we all can agree that 'being right' feels better than 'being wrong'. Since all actions are self-motivated (not to be confused with what we think of as 'selfish'. Even Mother Theresa's actions were self-motivated, as she got something emotional out of helping others)'being right' about someone as being a 'bad' person would validate your initial expectation, then
finding a flaw would in a subconscious way help your self-worth - because you were 'right'. So, as much as you don't like being 'hall-monitor' it also give you the intangible reward of 'being right'.

Don't let this article make you crawl under a rock and say stuff like "well, I just
stay away form BAL as noone likes me etc ', but use it as constructive criticism and
take a look at yourself. make what you have, BAL and yourself, better. Just because
you have flaws doesn't mean you're a bad person.

As a BAL leader of two groups....I was summarily dismissed by Firinn without a court trial or jury verdict. This is a man with virtually NO integrity as far as I, and many other originating BAL members agree. I never flaked (not one flake factor), I always treated everyone with the utmost respect and consideration and lead many many events. I was appalled when I went to post an event in my group, only to find it had been deleted. Under Firinn's rules of accountability, I should have at least been afforded the courtesy of being told when and why my group was deleted.

I let the first delete go without comment to Firinn. My 2nd group was a more active/athletic group and while I was having health issues requring surgery, I found my 2nd group deleted once again without consideration of an email or discussion. All along the way, I had been informing my group members of my health issues. This is not the way to behave in a society unless it is a dictatorship...which BAL is.

There was absolutely no ability to communicate or discuss with Firinn once he deletes you no matter which identity he hides behind (sometimes Roberta, sometimes George Chin). Many many of us which started with BAL during its infancy...have left the premises...hopefully having made some connections along the way without the need for the dictatorship under which BAL and Firinn operate.

This man hides behind identities other than his own, is unwilling to have differences of reasonable opinions without deleting you. Does this sound like anyone we've read about in the news the last few years?

Susanna

Michaela,
It's clear you're still trying to understand why you got the boot from BAL. I suggest you re-read the article and Firinn's letters about "screamers". It's clear he's doing his best to filter out the group of such people. Keep up the good work Firinn.
-JD

ah, good ol' JD, John Donaldson, who likes to play both sides. You openly admit to admiring Firinn's unfair tactics, but allow booted members to come to your events
behind his back. yep, says a lot......

I've read the article and Firinn says... 'the guilty tend to go silent, '

basically, you're screwed either way with him: If you're quiet you're guilty. If you're
not quiet then you need to get rid off as well, because you're a 'screamer'

Putting on my psychologist hat, I see Firrin to be the kind of guy who can't take any criticism. If a BAL member made disparaging remarks about him on this site, he would remove them from BAL. Am I right Firrin? If some called you an a*hole here wouldn't you try to identify and delete them from BAL.

Firinn writes: " Most of what happens regarding any "rules" happens within the software itself automatically, as a result of the collective requests and refinements initiated by hosts, which have been built into the software."

All of us booted from BAL know this is a flat out fib. As the architect of this site, isn't Firinn once again merely hiding behind different identities and his own designs?

There is a reason BAL'ers did not sign up for Firinn-led events or groups. Who wants to be consistently judged by a man of little integrity? Great concept though. One day perhaps BAL can evolve into a social society where we are not judged relentelessly....maybe when Firinn leaves.

Hi I'm Chuck - yes! the guy who got booted(with a 100% rating!) for being in a picture with Elvin.

For those Firinn apologists, you're missing the frikken point! The issue isn't about people getting booted for flaking on an event, but it's about people getting kicked out for issues totally unrelated and often completely bizarre, such as being in a picture with Elvin, changing the spelling of his or her name, putting a fake occupation on the profile, or just being Elvin's boss. This is why booted-BALers are speaking-up and denouncing him as total nut-job.

The great irony of this is this will probably help his business tremendousely, because there are plenty of misguided people who crave this orwellian authority and think he's some kind of hero for trying to uphold accountability and integrity.

The truth is there are plenty of groups out there where you don't have to worry about getting kicked out for flaking or for other obscure reasons and you don't have to pay any money. My social life hasn't suffered a bit since I have been booted out. So live a little and get kicked out!

The article left me with the impression that: (1) Firinn is a complicated guy who had a neat idea and is running with it; (2) the reporter is under pressure to produce a piece of gotcha journalism, and (3) people can get caught up in their sense of victimhood.
I’ve been a Linkup member for a couple of years, both in San Francisco and Boston, and here’s my take: unless we are Mother Theresa, we are unlikely to have the same sense of accountability toward strangers that we have towards our friends, family, and colleagues. When I host Linkup events, they tend to be small dinner events for which no-shows or last-minute cancellations are inconvenient for the guests (“how long do we wait?”) and costly for the restaurant. If you routinely flake out on social arrangements with your friends, your friends will eventually respond to that pattern and stop socializing with you. Linkup’s flake system provides similar behavioral pattern recognition for strangers, which is why I can set up a brandy-tasting brunch for four and be confident that the restaurant isn’t going to refuse to accept reservations from me in the future.

I’m not going to comment on any individual Linkup terminations, because I do not know the facts, but as for whether it is unreasonable for Firinn to make these determinations without resort to some sort of “process,” remember, the guy is running this whole thing off a desk-top computer in his house. If we were willing to pay through the nose for our Linkup memberships, I’m sure he’d be delighted to hire more staff to hear appeals. Or maybe he wouldn’t, who knows? At the end of the day, Linkup is one among a growing number of social networking websites. Linkup’s distinctiveness comes from the accountability; it works for me and apparently many others. It may not work for you, not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Look, even if we can all agree that Firinn likely won't win a Nobel Peace Prize for his management of BAL, the article focuses too much on his personality. Most groups in some way or the other have the stamp of the person/people who started them. It is doubtful, at least in my mind, that any group that was started by one individual but has events that are rather loosely organized (no master corporate planning) like BAL will have a unified policy that will appeal to everyone.

To me the bigger issues are:
1. how our society has changed to the extent so that a flake factor is such a controversial and unique thing. at the risk of sounding like a geezer, once upon a time in a land far, far away, it was considered proper social etiquette to honor your commitments. Now we have a very consumer, "every thing I do it OK because I am, well, me, glorious me", culture.

People increasingly feel that it is their right to do anything they want and other feelings or time be damned. Instead of a simple I'm sorry when someone breaks a commitment, one is more likely to hear - "wow man, I feel you are putting expectations on me. I don't like that."

2. BAL seems to have mainly middle-aged people in it. Is this in part due to the flake factor? If so, what does that imply about changes in culture between generations?

But hey, prez elections are now treated like a cross between a horse race and a vote for prom king or queen, so it isn't surprising that this article was mainly a personality profile.

To Craig and other Firinn defenders--including Firinn--above:

You don't get it. This really isn't about the flake factor thing. Interesting how Firinn continues to defend himself under the guise that this has to do with people being bothered about the flake factor (see comment #22). After talking to many people who have been booted out or who have dealt with Firinn in person, this is about him booting people because of his own personal semi-psychotic view that the world is out to get him -- or as he puts it, in comments #19 & #20, he's protecting us all from the "dickwads." Problem is, just about anything constitutes a dickwad in his world-- including saying you're an artist in the "Interests" section of your BAL profile, asking Firinn how he started Linkup (this makes him "hate you" apparently), and complaining even once (this makes you a "whiner").

To Craig and the other Firinn Defenders (incl. Firinn) above:

You just don't get it. This isn't about people being upset about Firinn's accountability system. Funny how Firinn tries to defend himself under the guise that we have a problem with him making us be accountable (comment #22). The actual problem that most people are addressing in the comments above is that Firinn kicks out anyone who doesn't support his semi-psychotic view of the world that no one can be trusted. As he says (in comments 19 & 20), he's booting people off BAL to protect us from all the "dickwads." Problem is that just about anything constitutes a dickwad in his world, including: saying you're an artist in your Linkup profile interests, asking Firinn how he started Linkup (apparently, that makes him "hate you"), and having Firinn see you in a photo next to someone else he thinks is a dickwad. And trying to get a restraining order against someone who "infiltrated" the system under a fake name and "crashed" an event? I'll bet the police department would have laughed in Firinn's face. I'm guessing that's why he could never find Elvin's address, because Firinn was probably aware somewhere in the very murky depths of his subconscious that what he was doing was borderline psychotic, and he would get no legal support to issue a restraining order... come on, if he was really determined to get someone's address, he could have--he's just crazy enough to put in that much time to hunt someone down. I think Firinn thinks he is the internet police -- actually, he appears to think he's the police of everyone's behavior. So stop defending yourself, Firinn (or is it Craig?... Silvermoon?.... Katrina?)

I think it's weird that the folks who've been kicked out are so bitter & vocal about Firinn/BAL. Why ruminate & complain? Time to move on to another social group. Perhaps it indicates Firinn's prescience that you are so vocal...who wants to socialize w/ screamers?

Dear JD (oops, I mean Firinn) (oops, I mean Firinn's Boy Friday) --

Why are you still defending him? By the way, I haven't been kicked off BAL yet, but I'm sure if Firinn can find a way now, he will. Again, you just don't get it. This is about Firinn's behavior-- not about the results of it. By the way, defending and whining are equally bad behavior traits.

As an intermittent Linkup subscriber/participant for 2 years, I've seen none of the personality cult portrayed in this article. And I've had only good experiences.

Linkup is just a handy tool for convening "smart mobs" around group events. Some events are practical services, like a free Spanish-language discussion group. Others are whimsical, like an Ocean Beach bonfire.

Hey, speaking of bonfires: That Burning Man thing? It arose out of a similar network, the S.F. Cacaphony Society. Back in the stone-age '80s, Cacaphony operated via a printed newsletter. *That* was top-down.

I've met Firinn (Linkup's founder/honcho) twice. He's as quirky as he's brilliant -- hardly an unusual mix among digital innovators. He's strong-willed about some opinions, and makes no bones about enjoying a good argument. Via Linkup, he often hosts events that are basically roundtable debates with drinks.

But it takes real effort to demonize a guy who dreamed up this useful service, built it around an ad-free Website that's as fast and functional as Craigslist's, and charges thousands of happy campers between zero and a pittance to participate.

"Well-behaved women rarely make history," says one bumper sticker. And similarly, well-adjusted people don't build you the Websites or online communities you'd actually want to use. Rational profit-seekers will shovel you cash cows like AOL, MSN, or Facebook -- spam generators that convert you into a commodity or viral marketer. It takes quirky oddballs like Firinn (or Craig Newmark) to make the Web really useful. Love 'em -- warts and all.

Folks, there are workarounds. Good Linkup hosts don't "flake" no-shows; they simply welcome all their guests to have a good time, and to expand their experiences, interests, and social circles. Healthy Linkup participants make new friends, with whom they communicate and hang out by other means. If you have a life, getting kicked off Linkup would barely dent it.

SF Weekly could have written a thoughtful article exploring the open question of who defines, adjudicates, and defends people's free-speech and free-association rights in the Wild Wild Web. Instead, it wasted space caricaturing a good guy who's done a lot for a lot of people. SF Weekly, like the E. Bay Express and Bay Guardian, is long overdue in outgrowing its snarky adolescence. Doesn't the Bay Area deserve one grown-up alt-weekly, like the LA Weekly or Village Voice or NY Press?

Jung much?

Mel, there's a difference between a psychology student and a psychology master. Most people I know who get "into" and "study" psychology do so because they primarily want to understand themselves and work on their issues. Many of these amateurs "deflect" their crap on others. Still many more want to "help" others under the guise that perhaps other wont see through their own weak psychological barrier. Grow a prefrontal cortex, will you. If you can't stand Firinn, start your own social network. Just be grateful to be able to participate in Linkup events so that you can continue to practice your own brand of psychology.

Mel, you state, "I am a psychology student and someone who understands people." Okay, then. Understand that Firinn didn't have the best upbringing, that his formative years were rife with instability, that he probably didn't get a lot of hugs or even a teddy bear, and as a result, he may have had to raise himself. Jeez, Mel, didn't you read the article? He came from a disfunctional family, probably like yours and about 68% of the American population.

Can't you infer from the article the reason why he chose his name to Firinn Taisdeal? It means truth seeker. Something he did when he was living at home and trying to force his family to see the truth instead of burying their heads in the sand. His family thought he was a shit stirrer. Something like the author, like you, like me, like many people who've commented on, and/or been interviewed for this article have done and are doing. Stirring up the shit pot.

Get a clue from your Psychology Journal and learn to really read and understand people.

The problem with everyone is their EGO gets in the way. As much as everyone's pointing their crooked fingers at Firinn, they might as well hold up a mirror to themselves.

His view of the world is his view. Your view of the world is yours. All based on the individual's past experiences. The world is big, buddy. Find your corner. Leave Firinn's world. Let him be the master of his internet domain. You go find yourself some f----p sorry ass losers to take care of. Fix their mind, their psyche. Be the master of that domain.

I'm not a BAL member. Don't need to be since I've got a lot of friends who are. I've heard the stories and met the man. I got no problem with him so long as he got no problem with me. I also know Mr. Martinez. I feel the same for him as I do toward Firinn.

I never received the email about this article from BAL although I knew about it for months now. I was really disappointed with it. It was too one-sided by showing Firinn as holy as Benedict XVI and giving the worst-case scenario of why people were getting thrown out of BAL.

Michaela's story was one example of Firinn using heavy-handed tactics to control an event. Why wasn't this story told, but instead we are told about Elvin's adventures (which was known to most people at BAL). I have also heard other stories of how people were thrown out just because they did not agree with Firinn on a technical point.

And it is really a shame that I have to use an alias to post this because just saying what I have have here will have me thrown out also. But it is of no consequence -- my social life does not revolve around BAL but it has enhanced it.

I think a follow-up story is in order that gives the other side of the story of why people were thrown out of the group.

Below is my official response to SF Weekly:

"Lauren Smiley failed to address the obvious, central issue: Why are more than 23,000 people using Linkup, and why is Linkup growing, especially in the Bay Area? The answer is simple: high quality content, high quality events, high quality people. A quick glance at the web site shows you this right away.

Lauren also misrepresented in a fundamental way how Linkup functions, and how Linkup was developed. The entire Linkup system was developed over four years through a series of open meetings in which anyone could present ideas for the service. Nearly all of the so-called "rules" are not mine at all, but were requested by Linkup members. All of the guidelines are also based on a fundamental issue: How can we all be encouraged to keep the commitments we make to each other? That's an important question, wouldn't you agree?

The wishes of thousands of people for a justifiably higher degree of confidence in each other are now embodied in the Linkup software, which for the most part runs automatically.

I will always be thankful to the many people who contributed so much fine spirit to this endeavor, among them: Russ B, Benjamin S, Scott A, Felicia V, Stephen V, Diana L, Michelle H, JD, Jennifer E, Peter H, Karla D, Aparna S, and hundreds more, from all over the world. Most of all I thank Andrea L, my partner, whom I have known since we were both fifteen.

Of course I also must thank the Weekly, that revered publication, for all the personal attention you lavished on me, but the truth is that I'm irrelevant. Linkup will soon run without me, because it was designed from the very beginning to do so.

Reaching for new heights of responsible journalism, the Weekly also contributed a lovely uniform, the most hackneyed icon of the previous century. Thanks for the endearing getup, but anyone who actually knows me also knows I'm much more at home in tights and a tutu.

Cheers."

Boy, tal aobut misrepresentation, Firinn, you try to make people believe that there are
23,000 happy BAL members who take part in regular events, when the reality is completely different: There are 30 cities set up, but only 5 have regular events. All the others have lots of members without anything happening. BAL is nothing without people willing to host.
You just conveniently keep forgetting that.

'Power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely!'

Firinn --

Once again you are determined to have the last word. You have tried to make everyone else accountable, but you refuse to have us hold you accountable. Why is that? And--since you are a person in position of power-- you run a very large social group -- you should be held accountable more than the rest of us. You're attacking me just because I'm holding you to your own standard, and yet you have the right to attack the rest of us for whatever reason you deem fit. All we've been doing is calling you on your crap, and you continue to not be able to acknowledge anything other than give the excuse that you had a f*****d-up childhood and the rest of us are all just "screamers" or "whiners." Or you encourage us to go work on the other f*****d up losers.... No, Firinn -- the truth about the damage you've caused people has come to light -- this is about YOU, not the other losers. But don't worry, Firinn--whether under the guise of "Mel's Liberty Belle" or "JD" or whatever--you'll get the last word. You always have and you always will. As for me, you'll be happy to know that I'm no longer listening to you -- I'll just continue to talk with all the people that you've hurt unjustly. I hope that you really can let go enough to turn control of BAL over to someone else, and hopefully someone who realizes the unfairness of kicking people off because they looked at you sideways once. -- OVER AND OUT --

Mel, JD actually is a different person, look under the members' names. It's JD in Oakland. You've probably seen him at events. Loud, big , boisterous. His voice is the one you can hear from a mile away, if you notice the group he's in (talk about 'screamer). The funny thing is, he keeps calling us 'screamers', when we became only screamers after we got thrown out. Hmmm.....so, either it shows that he's not very bright or he believes that Firinn had ESP and knew that some of us would turn into people not turning the other cheek, so he went ahead and threw us out before that would happen. But then again, if he knew that would happen, wouldn't it have been wiser to leave us in the group? But maybe
'being wise' has absolutely nothing to do with this........

Hey, Mel

I am NOT Firinn. Check the sentence pattern, buddy. We're not even the same gender. Frankly, which I don't have, Firinn is better looking. Ask Elvin. He will attest to me being me and not Firinn. Yeah, I'm getting my jollies checking out all the comments. It's funny. Reminds me of my kids. But unlike some BAL whiners out there, my kids will be the ones who grow up to be responsible, accountable human beings with manners yet with street cred. Hey, we all need street cred living in the clean streets of Kensington.

Seriously, Mel, you need actual subjects to practice your pop psychology on. Don't do it based on people you just read about. Hey, there are a lot of homeless people out there. Why don't you ask them where they've been so that you can figure out how they got there? Or pick on someone with the same lack of mental acuity as yourself. Or just hold up a mirror and start asking yourself questions.

Hi MLB --

Oh, you must be Firinn's best friend. Or maybe his secret lover (that's why I thought you might be a man, not a woman). Or maybe you're JD. Or maybe you're just a psycho who feels they need to keep defending another psycho. Or maybe you're just someone who likes to pray on defenseless people (the homeless, students) but defend the powerful Hitler-types. Whatever your real name is, and whoever you are, I don't care. You're just another Firinn screamer to me.

Hi MLB --

Oh, you must be Firinn's best friend. Or maybe his secret lover (that's why I thought you might be a man, not a woman). Or maybe you're JD. Or maybe you're just a psycho who feels they need to keep defending another psycho. Or maybe you're just someone who likes to pray on defenseless people (the homeless, students) but defend the powerful Hitler-types. Whatever your real name is, and whoever you are, I don't care. You're just another Firinn screamer to me.

Of course you care, Mel, otherwise you wouldn't have responded. I'm responding to you because I like toying with you.

Like I said in a previous comment, I am not a BAL member but know many who are. I've only met Firinn a few times and I've never met JD.

The word is PREY, not "pray" in your context. Can you spell moron?

Yes, I pray for the homeless having been homeless myself at one time.

Most students I know are not defenseless unless they misuse their new-found knowledge, then they just come off as STUPID, which, can make them defenseless. But if you don't know that you're stupid, it won't matter. Then ignorance IS bliss.

BTW, are you doing a rotation at John George?

And lastly, Mel, you'll need a full-length mirror to accomodate your full-lenght EGO.

NMLB -- You spelled accommodate and length wrong. Tag, you're it.

Firinn, your statement means nothing.

What this article failed to provide was a balanced story of the people who were in Linkup but were subsequently thrown out by you for some very stupid reasons. This story was way too one-sided.

The concept behind BAL is a good one and it is one of the reasons why I joined it. But this heavy-handedness is not good for any group dynamic.

I would like to hear the author's response to all of these comments since the publication of the story.

I'm still fascinated about how Firinn's leadership of BAL was, out of all the things going on locally and the world, selected as the cover story. I remember reading articles about the original owner of Aub Zam Zam on Haight. The authors would usually celebrate him as another wild and crazy SF character because he made a great martini but would toss his customers out for infractions like improper ordering of his beloved martinis. I can't remember a single cover story investigating the horrors experienced by his patrons. "He didn't like your choice of olive? How can you cope?" Readers would simply decide that was the type of place they wanted to go to or not.

If you go to local restaurants there are often signs stating that they have the right to refuse service. Trendy clubs keep out folks deemed too old or uncool. Young hotties (striver or others) get to move to the front of the line. Business owners sometimes have really odd, unfair traits - ask people who worked for the young Steve Jobs. That doesn't prevent people from liking their ipod though.

If I wanted to be cynical (which of course I don't want to be because I live in NorCal and being cynical isn't nice) I might think that SF Weekly ran this article on the cover because it was an easy way to appear investigative while not doing anything to piss off advertisers or their corporate parent.

Maybe I'm influenced by having a kid, but as I look around our culture seems to be that of a 2 year old. SF sometimes rises to the level of maturity of the in-crowd at a snooty high school. We want our wars but don't want to pay for them "and you better not tell me I can't have it both ways!". Sure cell phones might be dangerous to use when driving a car but "like I have to call Buffy. Like I have to tell her about my new socks. Like they are awesome!!!!" 2 years olds and teenagers rebel against parental figures whether the parents are fair or unfair.

Even if you think Firinn is the devil incarnate, shouldn't cover stories be about parental figures who have far more impact on our society? I can nominate some who are causing wars, destroying the environment, spending more on prisons than on higher ed, spying on our personal email accounts, driving out of SF middle class and working class families and spending a lot of money slated for dealing with homelessness without in fact doing much about it. Somehow Firinn's stewardship of BAL, just seems rather low on the list.

Besides, aren't their more pressing stories to write about striver girls now that the issue of their relationship with slacker boys has been dealt with?

A lot of sites, Match, for one, make statements about how many are signed up in their system. But they do not mention that a large percent of them are inactive and no longer paying members.

BAL might expel people it considers flakes, but I suspect that inactive, non-paying folks do not drop off the list.

I looked up somebody I know who was a subscriber who is now living in rural Tennessee now and her profile still shows.

My memory of BAL was that groups came and went very quickly so there was little consistency of events across time. Perhaps because so many leaders were 'flaked' out.
Another thing I noticed was that events often were filled about as soon as they were posted. It looked to me that the event leader was probably contacting the people s/he
wanted in the event prior to posting..but maybe not. But all of this was pretty frustrating and made me decide to stop paying and re-establish - this was post-divorce when friends were acting a bit skittish around me (and my X) - friendships through more stable orgs led by and peopled by more stable people

The list of legitimate organizations is practically endless here in the Bay Area

Glad you caught the misspelled words, spelling bee. It was done purposefully. Someone pays attention. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!

Interesting observation: I submitted a balanced and well-thought comment that attacked no one several hours ago. Subsequently, several other comments have appeared. Mine is not among them. Are the comments censored, posting only those that inspire mean-hearted conflict?

Let me make a rather obvious point. The people who are deleted from Linkup are not motivated to tell the truth about why they were deleted, because it's often unflattering to them. I'll give you a few examples:

LORRAINE MACDONALD
Contrary to Lorraine's claims, she was actually deleted due to numerous complaints that as host of events she became so drunk she needed help finding her way home. We are looking for responsible hosts, not hosts who become so drunk they barely know where they are.

ELVIN MARTINEZ
Nearly three years ago I received a number of complaints about Elvin, mostly having to do with his misrepresenting the nature of his events. In one instance several people had driven all the way to San Jose from the North Bay to attend what had been described as a small, intimate party. What they encountered was a noisy, huge room with more than 500 people in it, with gruff bouncers at the door.

Linkup members were furious about the misrepresentation, as well as the huge waste of their time, and when they confronted Elvin, he shrugged it off. When I called Elvin and told him it was a serious problem, again he shrugged it off.

So we also want hosts who don't misrepresent their events, and who take responsibility for their events.

I actually tolerated Elvin's presence at events even after he had been deleted, and would even greet him personally. I remember running into him in the bathroom at Blondie's at a Linkup event on a quiet Monday night, and greeted him by name.

It was only when I began to receive serious complaints from hosts that Elvin was crashing events and lying his way into them, and then lying to hosts who confronted him, that I felt I need to take further action.TOM MERLE
There were two serious complaints about Tom Merle. The first was that after hosting a large wine event, Tom sent out direct solications to the guest list to buy wine from his vendors. Linkup members perceived this as commercial solicitation, which indeed it was. That was a clear violation of Linkup policy. Tom was given a warning.

The second complaint was more strange. Tom had started a group, but the group wasn't as active as Tom wanted, so he began berating them in postings. We found this unacceptable, and warned him to stop. He didn't. We fired an official "warning shot over the bow," in the form of cancelling his subscription, but not deleting him.

Tom continued to berate his group in postings on the bulletin board. He had been given two warnings, so we deleted him.

You should know that Tom was also kicked out of the Commonwealth Club for similar behavior. I even asked Tom about this. He and I were standing on the corner of Bancroft and Telegraph in Berkeley, and I asked him "What's the problem with the Commonwealth Club?"

Tom's answer was revealing, and I quote with perfect accuracy here: "It's not a Commonwealth Club problem. It's a Tom Merle problem."

In his lucid moments, Tom knows what the problem is.MICAELA
Several months ago Micaela sent in an event without a clear place to meet. At Linkup we try as hard as we can to make sure there are never any problems for members trying to find the event, so we asked her to please clarify exactly where to meet.

Instead of clarifying where to meet for her guests, she unaccountably blew up at us. We continued to try to work with her to make sure her guests were not inconvenienced, but her communication became more and more strange:

We asked her whether it was the BART exit on the West side or East side of Mission. She screamed that she didn't know which way was West.

We asked her whether she meant the BART exit closer to Valencia, or closer to the bay. She screamed that she didn't know which way Valencia way was (even though the address of her event was on Valencia).

At that point we had had enough. Micaela has continued screaming and screaming for all these months now, and apparently she's more than willing to continue to do so indefinitely.So you see, there's more to the story than the patently absurd claims of "They kicked me out for NO REASON!"

Sure they did. Of course they did.

Hi Sybil. Resubmit your comment. You have to write the validation code exactly as it appears in the box, and the characters are case sensitive. An error note above the name box will appear stating "validation code doesn't match" if you're unsuccessful. If you're successful the page with everyone's comments will reappear, with your newly added comment on the bottom of the page. You can also save your comments on Microsoft Word just in case you run into a glitch. Then just copy and paste onto SFWeekly's comment box. We would love to read your fair and balanced, non-attacking, comment.

This is what Linkup does every week to ensure that inactive profiles do not remain in the system:

1) Every Monday morning before 10:00AM (our deadline for weekly backups), we download a folder containing all of the email messages which have bounced that week, indicating the email address is no longer valid. We even include "mailbox full" bounces, because in that case as well email is not getting through, so the account is inactive from our perspective.

2) We then run a script which searches the profiles for an alternate email address for that account. If an alternate email address is found, the alternate is swapped in as the primary address.

3) All accounts for which no alternate address was found are marked as "bounce" in the database. (If the member logs in and their profile is set to "bounce," they are presented with a reminder to update their email address.)

4) We then run a script which searches the profiles for any account which is marked as "bounce" and for which the person has not logged in for six months or more. If they haven't logged in for six months, and their email is bouncing, they're definitely not active.

5) Any such profile is immediatetely and permanently deleted. Dozens of such profiles have to be discarded each week, as email addresses.

Obviously, if someone has moved away and not let us know, but their email address is still working, they are not deleted because we have no way of knowing they've moved away unless they tell us.

Many people who have Linkup accounts do not necessarily log in frequently, because they primarily use the RSS feed to scan events. There have also been numerous instances of people who leave for a year or more suddenly returning and becoming active again, so if we just deleted profiles based on a recency of login, it would be unfair to those people.

If there is anything else you think we should do, or any better way of handling the issue of automatically detecting and dealing with inactive profiles, please let us know.

Thanks!

Firinn,

When I read your reasons why you expelled certain people, I can understand the first three, assuming that your version of the events is true. For the last person--Micaela--how can you say that she was screaming when your communication is over the internet? Could you hear the volume of her voice? Your complaints about people "screaming" just make you sound unbalanced, because the word sounds like a word you use to express anger, and, moreover, because you use it to justify your actions again and again. Being a "screamer" is not a real thing--it is only an interpretation. When you hear someone complain, does this make them a screamer? I don't understand how you and your groupies feel you have the right to label everyone as "screamers." And the more that all of you use that word to justify your actions, the more it sounds like there was no justification for your actions.

Firinn,
that's a lie and you know it.
I set up an event at the Make-Out room in the mission. It's correct, that I did not state immediately where to meet. He then responded that he changed my event to say that we should meet at the top of the elevator on the west side of the bart station. I responded that I didn't know where west was (sure, I could have looked it up, but I felt it was inconsiderate to expect everyone having to know the layout of the mission Bart station) and that I always tell people that we meet at the top of the elevator on the side where the fence is round (the other side of the street is square) . He came back saying that he now changed my event to say that we meet on the side that's closer to Valencia St. I felt that was exactly the same thing. It required the guest to know exactly where everything is in relation to the BART station and would have been really inconsiderate. Having had the horrible experience before at the Karaoke event where he refused to talk to me, I felt the best thing was to just delete the event, which I did. It hadn't yet been announced and no one had signed up. He responded by saying, that he made a remark in my file that I was unreasonable, which p*ssed me off. I tried to respond (p*ssed of, I admit) it never went through as I got a message saying, that my membership priviliges had been suspended. That's it.

A little bit about the process for the SF Weekly article:

1) When Lauren called initially, the first question I asked her was how she got my phone number. I was a bit startled to realize when she responded to my question that she was lying to me. I then had to ask myself: "Why would a reporter lie to me about how she got my phone number?"

So I realized from the very beginning that something was up, but I was committed to being completely open, no matter what.

2) I talked with Lauren initially for 40 minutes on the phone, even though I was still rather shaken by being lied to within the first two minutes of talking with someone.

3) Lauren then wanted to meet me in person, so she came out to my place. I picked her up at 10:15 at Pleasant Hill BART. We talked continuously from 10:15AM until 5:20PM, when I dropped her off again. She recorded more than 5 hours of the interview on digital audio.

4) During the couse of that conversation, which lasted all day, I showed Lauren the entire administrative interface for Linkup, without restrictions. She of course was particularly curious about records of anyone deleted, and began prying. I turned over to her more than 30 pages of records of people who had been deleted, with complete contact information.

5) Lauren asked for a Linkup account. I created one specifically for her, with no restrictions as to how she would use it.

6) Lauren conducted long interviews with more than a dozen current Linkup members. Many of those interviews lasted more than an hour each. She also contacted many more members for shorter interviews. A good estimate would be that Lauren talked at some length with more than 20 current Linkup members.

7) Lauren scheduled an interview with my partner by phone in the evening, and talked with my partner for more than 45 minutes.

8) Lauren talked with two people from my distant past for more than a half hour each, because I had put her in touch with them, with the understanding in advance that I had a conflicted relationship with those people.

9) Lauren talked with a current friend of mine for 45 minutes by phone. Since his comments weren't negative, they didn't make it into the article.

10) Lauren called someone in New York who had been kicked out no fewer than six times for extreme flakiness, and had created six phony profiles, sneaking back in each time. Lauren told me that when she talked with him (because I had given her his contact information), he told her that whoever called him (which was me) to ask him to stop sneaking back in was really nice about it. Somehow that never made it into the article. Ask yourself why.

11) The one question I refused to answer was because I am applying for a patent, and if you publicly reveal details of your invention you automatically invalidate your own patent application. This was where Lauren chose to write "Firinn holds back details..." in order to make me look evasive, but in fact she deliberately omitted the valid, serious reason I couldn't answer the question. Ask yourself why Lauren would do that.

12) Lauren continued to call me frequently at home, day after day. It finally became so ridiculous that at one point in the background my partner said "Is that Lauren again? What the hell's wrong with her?" These calls took an additional several hours in total.

13) At one point Lauren called me late at night, and one of her first questions was "Diane's mother said you had a body like a Greek god. Is that true?" So you see the level of professionalism here.

14) Lauren attended a full two-and-a-half hour open meeting which was presented to her as representative of the process of discussion and debate through which Linkup was created. She attended the full meeting, and recorded the entire meeting on digital audio. Somehow she failed to mention that Linkup was created through a series of such meetings. Ask yourself why she would do that.

15) Several Linkup members wrote to me very concerned because they felt that no matter how many positive comments they made in extended interviews, Lauren always tried to translate their comments into negative terms: "She's trying to put evil words in my mouth. It's horrible." Given that Lauren spoke at length with more than 20 Linkup members, most of whom had nothing but positive comments, it's hard to understand why all those people were deliberately excluded in favor of quoting Elvin Martinez at great length.

16) Lauren fails to mention in her article that the reason she has access to minute details of Linkup records is because I gave them to her. Ask yourself why she would do that.

There's even more I could tell you, but you get the idea.

Thanks.

In the vernacular of the internet, screaming means writing the words in CAPS. Such as, "Honey, PICK UP YOUR CLOTHES OFF THE FLOOR, NOW!"

G.I.Jane,
I did not write to him in caps.

To the disgruntled and ejected hostess,
The more you write the nuttier you sound. Not to say whether you're right or wrong but at some point you need to let go of your anger and resentment about your Linkup experience and move on. With so many things in life we find unfair and unreasonable it's usually best to pick our battles wisely.

As an unbiased, unrelated-to-Firinn (in fact never met him) BAL member, can I just say that I enjoy the group greatly and this whole comment section is making me think that some people (Micheala, Mel, Firinn, and JD (in many disguises, apparently)) have too much time on their hands. You're all sounding VERY juvenile to the rest of us.

Come on people, it's a good group. This shouldn't be about the person who created it - he's easy enough to avoid if you want to. Customer-service is too blunt, absolutely, but the system allows for several flakes/cancellations before your record is badly tarnished - it's not all-or-nothing. If you have too many flakes/cancellations, maybe you need to review your own behavior, because you're inconveniencing others.

I think this article was fairly lame. As a writer myself, I wonder what the angle was? Was it to promote BAL? It failed. Was it to expose BAL? It failed there, too. Was it to profile an individual? If so, it was a half-assed attempt.

Firinn, if you're still reading these, this member is asking you to re-instate Cliff (if he was willing to come back). His events are well-run and fun and always handled with grace and humanity. If he has asked for your assistance with matters in the past, I would vouch that his motivation was to improve the experience of the people around him. Hosts like Cliff are what keep me coming back.

If any non-BAL people read these comments (doesn't seem likely), this is a good group, made great by the people who join. Men, we need more of you to join! (There, I just gave you a clue about me. ;-)

Too chicken to sign my name, but I am real.

FT: There were two serious complaints about Tom Merle. The first was that after hosting a large wine event, Tom sent out direct solications to the guest list to buy wine from his vendors. Linkup members perceived this as commercial solicitation, which indeed it was. That was a clear violation of Linkup policy. Tom was given a warning.

TOM: The winery reps and owners (not vendors/retailers) drove great distances in the evening to the wine tasting, pouring wine for free, with the understanding that order forms would be available, an arrangement similar to the Commonwealth Club which sells the books of the authors who speak at their events. Because of a competing event in an adjacent space with a rambunctious group of bike messengers causing some havoc at our event, many attendees did not see nor know about the forms. Some asked later about ordering the wine. I thought it a service both for the attendees and the wineries to follow up with a notice how the wines could be ordered. Members told me they appreciated the follow up. As others have noted in these comments, the "members" that FT refers to are the personas he fabricates to reinforce his own point of view. For Firinn, everything is either black or white.

FT: The second complaint was more strange. Tom had started a group, but the group wasn't as active as Tom wanted, so he began berating them in postings. We found this unacceptable, and warned him to stop. He didn't. We fired an official "warning shot over the bow," in the form of cancelling his subscription, but not deleting him.

Tom continued to berate his group in postings on the bulletin board. He had been given two warnings, so we deleted him.

TOM: ~Berating~ is a strong word. I did not engage in such behavior. As with other accusations by FT on this forum, no corroboration.

FT: You should know that Tom was also kicked out of the Commonwealth Club for similar behavior. I even asked Tom about this. He and I were standing on the corner of Bancroft and Telegraph in Berkeley, and I asked him "What's the problem with the Commonwealth Club?"

TOM: A libelous comment. I was not kicked out of the Commonwealth Club.

FT: Tom's answer was revealing, and I quote with perfect accuracy here: "It's not a Commonwealth Club problem. It's a Tom Merle problem."

TOM: Another typical Firinn fabricated version of accuracy. But then we're back to a ~he said/she said~ situation.

FT: In his lucid moments, Tom knows what the problem is.

TOM: When FT isn't fabricating events he's insulting people. The problem has to do with a bright person who suffers from what might be called the Robespierre syndrome--imposing rigid requirements on people for their own good, which is his prerogative since it's his sandbox. I had no problem with being banished, though the complete elimination of all emails and other forms of involvement with the group was unnerving.

That said,I consider the programs very worthwhile and I like and admire Firinn--if only he'd stop with the slurs and loosen up a bit. He does seem to be expressing some remorse at the end of the article over his harsh treatment of some ~wayward~ members.

However, for those who would like to avoid these sorts of tensions, and the paternalism, there is a alternative, MEETUP.COM, whose guidelines are much more sensible (=flexible) with a far greater array of events. Reflecting our open society, they encourage debate and assertiveness. And they leave to the individual organizers how each wants to deal, or not deal, with no shows. Come on over Cliff; check out http://beer.meetup.com/ (good thing SF Weekly doesn't forbid this kind of solicitation...)

I love the last two comments and the last one from Firinn... They seem smart and fair and they don't "scream." But I have something more important to address about Firinn's comment: Firinn, I'm very excited that you let us know that you might look like a Greek God... I felt really certain what my own visual impression of your body was up until you set us straight by letting us know... Have you taken any photos of yourself? Can you PLEASE post one in your next comment? or you could just post it on hotornot dot com ;o0

For anyone who has ever been or is now a member of Linkup:

Have you ever noticed that there is no spam within Linkup? In other words, unlike in nearly all other social groups, you rarely if ever get messages within Linkup from people pushing stuff you don't want to hear about.

In nearly all other social groups, inevitably you start getting all kinds of messages from people you've never met who are trying to sell you something, or trying to get you to pay attention to something you don't want to pay attention to--everything from DJ's and bad bands to homemade candles, sex toys, Tupperware parties, unwanted salacious invitations, invitations to be born again in Jesus, people you've never heard of adding you as a "friend," and other "friendly" people from Nigeria telling you that the money is just waiting for you in that account, if you'd only agree to...

That can ruin your social experience, so it was very important for Linkup to find a solution to this issue, for the sake of the members.

So have you ever wondered why there is no spam within Linkup?

It's mainly because we actually talk on the phone with each person who applies, or at least have a confirmed phone call from them, which makes it very unlikely they're a spammer. That simple phone call or phone exchange, while it takes a lot of time and effort on our part, eliminates spam by about 95%.

We also ask each person directly on the phone what they're looking for, and if it sounds like they're trying to push something, we inquire further, and if it turns out they're just trying to promote something, we end the conversation quickly.

It's crucial that spammers and promoters never gain a foothold. We're willing to do the work every day to achieve this, by spending all the time it takes to make those phone calls.

The other reason there is virtually no spam within Linkup is because we carefully developed a proprietary system which catches any remaining spammers with 100% effectiveness within 5 messages. We don't have to look at the messages. The system takes care of that all on its own.

I can't reveal the algorithm due to a patent application, but I can tell you that it has absolutely nothing to do with parsing text. We don't have to parse any text. An extraordinarily simple algorithm which is actually much simpler than any text parsing does it for us.

Of course I told Lauren Smiley that, but she was in the service of disgruntled people out for blood, so naturally she deliberately left it out, and instead made claims of parsing messages, claims which are grossly inaccurate.

Ask yourself: Why would she do that?

After all, she's a highly respected journalist, working for a highly respected publication.

Firinn,

I think before you go making accusations about the journalistic intent of the author, she should have a chance to respond in this form. Otherwise, you are just doing what you do in Linkup -- judging members with your own reasoning and logic.

Regarding the reporter's opportunity to respond: well, what's stopping her? We're not exactly having this conversation in private.

Firinn has written many pages defending himself. I think he deserves some acknowledgment for ceasing to call people names like "dickwads" and "screamers," but why has he built such a huge defense arsenal? In his many long comments, the only time he was able to admit wrongdoing -when he admitted in a brief paragraph that he was flawed- he did it in a way that denigrated those who would agree that he is flawed. When I read what Tom Merle (one of the four that Firinn defends expelling) wrote in response, his words are calm, they make great sense, and honestly, I think his writing proves that he is the bigger person. When it comes to Firinn's word vs. Tom's word, one of them has to be twisting their story in order to prove themself right. I suggest readers go back and read Firinn's version vs. Tom version and judge for yourselves. Another person who is responding to Firinn is Michaela. She is obviously very vocal and upset, but from what I personally know about what she said in regards to JD--it was all truth. I have no reason to disbelieve her. As for people expecting the reporter to respond -- why would she do that? It's just her word against Firinn's, and it's clear he has built up a large line of defenses and attacks. And I'm pretty convinced now that he is lying.

When I got to the comment from Cliff, I decided I have to add my own comment. Some time after attending several successful events with BAL I signed up to attend a personal growth event hosted by Cliff. When I arrived there was no way to find anyone connected with the BAL event. Why host the event and not make an effort to meet up with the people who are attending your event? I had been hoping to make some connections with like minded individuals, but instead I went to the event, never met anyone and left by myself. (I know) I should have commented at the time but I let it
go. If that had been my first event I may have stopped my membership in the first 3 months.
There are rules everywhere, I agreed to the BAL rules when I joined, so I don't have a problem with the way Firinn controls the site. I've met Firinn a couple times and he struck me as a 'mad scientist' type guy, and fellow 'tree hugger' out to make at least a small part of the world a better place and I enjoyed meeting and talking to him.

When I read the comments I reflect on my entire BAL experience, from the first event I attended, the first event I hosted, first interactions with Firinn and all that happened in the ensuing years.

One thing I've found interesting in all the discussions about those that have been removed from Linkup is that there has been very little mentioned about behavior other than flakiness, i.e. no-shows, lame excuses, etc. Of the ‘disappeared’ people with whom I have had first-hand personal interactions, all were removed because of their execrable comportment: crashing events, behaving boorishly, stalking, skipping out on the check, disrespecting the host and other guests, getting sloppy drunk, being lewd and obviously on the prowl, etc.

I was, and remain, extremely grateful to Firinn for his sup