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Christopher Cook 12/10/2011 4:07:00 AM
While nicely written, this piece is filled with entirely unsubstantiated assumptions. It's as ideological and predictable as the Weekly likes to claim the Guardian is--at least the Guardian is honest and constructively trying to make a better world, not just being snarky and irreverent. There's some research here, but nothing to substantiate claims about progressives not organizing, or not understanding there's a world beyond their base, etc. What an intensely biased and ideological piece this is.
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12/05/2011 9:17:00 PM
The problem is with the very nature of communists (so-called progressives). They all want to be their own little Party Commissar and their own Uncle Joe Stalins.
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12/01/2011 5:02:00 AM
The problem with Progressives is they ARE the problem. They created the problems. Furthermore, you cannot expect to survive demography when all of your agendas lead to broken homes and dead ends. Politics is about demography. When you attack and malign parents as "breeders" or "heterosexists", gleefully support abortion, only support homosexual marriage while insulting REAL marriage as "backwards" or "medieval" your numbers will only increase with indoctrination because you're simply no able to have legitimate children. Leftists are Useful Idiots for the Matrix. Who else needs a machine to breed? Who else relies so heavily on prosthetics for sex?
You're not "digging your own graves." The reviled children of the "breeders" are digging them for you and your self-loathing, Postmodern Nihilism.
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Briansays 11/28/2011 11:05:00 PM
people finally woke up and saw the stinking fetid mess than you made of a once great city
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11/28/2011 9:13:00 PM
This article has really ticked off Chris Daly, the uber progressive who now lives in Fairfield.
Now that he is with child he wants to make sure his house won't ever be near "affordable and transitional housing".
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11/27/2011 7:41:00 PM
troublebunny - A lot of history here, but I'll try to be concise. "Liberal" started its current run as an adjective in the 1930s, to indicate an openness to emerging ideas such as Keynesian economics. Other new ideas accrued over the years, the best of them involving ecology and civil rights, but a power structure accrued as well, namely the modern Democratic Party (which is only partially liberal).
Decades later, those of us working on issues with no help at all from the Democratic Party still had to face idiotic labeling along the lines of, "so you lib'ruls also support raising taxes for flag-burning." The word "progressive" had a history steeped in populism, so it caught on amongst people who wanted to break free of the ideologies, real or imagined, of the unhelpful power structure.
In places where it caught on, those still caught up in the power structure have tried to coöpt the term, as in Jaye's statement. A typical move for San Francisco politicians is to do something progressive in the sociocultural realm (e.g. gay marriage or going to Burning Man) while being merely moderate or downright Getty-friendly in the economic realm.
I mentioned Glenn Beck. His approach is to conflate liberalism and progressivism, and also socialism and fascism and, I dunno, IslamObamaKenyanism into one big overarching bogeyman. This article's retread of lib'rul flag-burning taxes is the idiotic and Becklike labeling of progressivism as "government should subsidize homeless people who choose to drink themselves to death." As I said, this article has much to recommend it, but that entire section was a huge gaping failure.
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11/27/2011 12:13:00 AM
Liberals (in the American sense of the term) believe in making gradual human advancement toward more socialized capitalism, by working within the current economic and political channels, and using new laws and regulation changes within existing legal and regulatory structures, all in order to bring a greater good to most citizens. They tend not to have to strong a critique of capitalism, and try to work within it. Liberals are therefore 'reformist' and incrementalist. Liberals tend to put most of their eggs in the Democrat basket.
Progressives believe in making far more radical fundamental changes to political, financial, and social systems in order to change the way economics and politics work, to evolve human life and civilization to a dramatically higher state. Progressives tend to have strong critiques of capitalism, some even supporting its elimination. Progressives tend to seek the outright banning of things that are bad (like natural gas fracking) rather than the mere passing of 'regulations' on such activities.
For example, In our local context...
Liberals: focus on tweaking regulations on real estate development to get slightly better tax income, a little bit higher affordable housing, a little bit better environmental standards, and some expanded direct 'Community Benefits' and financial grants to neighborhoods and to the traditional liberal nonprofits that they work for.
Progressives: Work to turn San Francisco's laws fundamentally on their head so that the top priority of the City is to strongly discourage market rate housing, outright mandate 60% or higher affordable housing construction and retention, vastly expand rent control, and shift City money into strategies like municipal banks, cooperatives and land trusts to undertake such affordable housing construction; instead of trying to run housing funding through large for profit real estate developers which will always dominate such a privatized process through their disproportionate financial muscle.
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troublebunny 11/26/2011 9:47:00 PM
Jym, can you give a concise definition of the difference? I know what *I* feel the difference is...and why I reject the label Progressive, mysef...but I'm curious as to what others believe differentiates the two groups.
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11/26/2011 6:05:00 AM
✌ This article has much to recommend it, but conflating "progressive" with "liberal" is completely wrong. Eric Jaye channels Glenn Beck on this point, which should be your first clue that there's a problem. The whole point of the p-word is to keep free of the ideological baggage of the l-word, which is why Faux News is so keen to constrain its meaning.
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Simply Progressive 11/26/2011 12:01:00 AM
The best political analysis I have read from a local paper in the west since La Opinion wrote on the El Salvador Civil War. The immediate fanatical vitriolic and anti semantic comments from progressives like Dave, the angry loser, made the writer's point ever so much clear. If progressives like him do not learn to accept people with different ethnicity than theirs and learn to grasp the pulse of people speaking Cantonese, Mandarin, and Spanish at home, their decline will be as predictable as a Puerto Rican pro independence movement. Good work Mr. Wachs and Eskenazi.
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11/25/2011 10:30:00 PM
sick.............nothing more, nothing less
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Dave 11/25/2011 8:46:00 PM
boring. rather shag a duck and rape a swan than read this. i have testicles the size of a nuns wand and am not afraid to use it. give me your holes, you silly jew boys!
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11/25/2011 7:28:00 PM
Thanks Ben and Joe for your outstanding investigative reporting. Thanks to SF Weekly for sponsoring your work. That being said, you guys deserve a broader audience than SF Weekly can provide. I hope that someday I will read your investigative reporting in a major newspaper.....NY Times or Washington Post, maybe? Your journalistic style and investigative reporting will someday get you national recognition you deserve, perhaps a Pulitzer Prize. Keep up the good work and look east young men, that is your future.
Craig
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11/25/2011 5:43:00 AM
How can anyone claim that the plodgressives in SF are DOA when their horse (and calling him a horse is kind -- more like an ideological mule running dogma instead of drugs) received 2/3 as many votes for mayor as the machine's winner, far more than any other candidate by a mile?
Then I ddi read on the Bay Citizen that several "cancelled" candidates actually recieved more votes than Avalos. I just think the guy should launch a yoga brand. Or bottled water. Or a car.
Or all three -- Avalosalicious!
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11/24/2011 9:42:00 PM
Great piece. Thank you Benjamin Wachs and Joe Eskenazi.
I work with folks who define themselves as pretty liberal and middle-of-the-road.
This is what I saw:
Progressives did themselves a damaging disservice by not clearly enunciating their agenda in terms of land use, zoning, planning.
Without a self-definition, it's left up to voters to define what a progressive is. Usually that definition begins and ends with social issues.
These voters who do not self-identify as progressive also do not see that their views on land use are closely aligned with those of progressives.
They do not see that the more moderate candidates are pro-developer.
Had progressives defined themselves in terms of land use and zoning, they would have captured a lot more votes on SF's West Side while keeping their base.
Thanks again.
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11/24/2011 5:14:00 PM
This "progressives are weak sauce and the Guardian sucks" is the SF Weekly's version of the Top 10 lists other newspapers run at the end of every year!
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11/24/2011 4:49:00 AM
WiFi Fight Was Different & Fundamentally Not As You Portray It
Compelling article. In some ways wildly exaggerated, but essentially on point thematically.
However I must disagree strongly with the one particular claim you make; about the WiFi issue. As one of the grassroots organizers who coordinated the campaign against Newsom's WiFi plan, I can assure you, that fight was fundamentally about consumer protection, not Newsom. Newsom made a big show of pretending that Supes and others were opposing his plan out of simple spite, but that was just Newsom hype.
We need to be clear here. If Newsom's plan had gone forward, Earthlink and Google would now outright own, as a private monopoly partnership franchise, nearly all wireless access to the internet in San Francisco.
That would have been a mistake as profoundly foolish as the PG&E, Comcast, and AT&T monopoly franchise deals which currently completely control our access to electricity, cable and phone service. The idea that we should have the same type of gouged, crappy service for our wireless internet access was unacceptable to consumer and internet freedom activists in San Francisco, and a coordinated team of such activists put together a campaign to stop the Newsom debacle in its tracks. And that's exactly what we did.
It was our coalition, which got the progressive supervisors to join us in that fight. They did not just do so on their own accord, and certainly not simply to spite Newsom.
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troublebunny 11/24/2011 3:38:00 AM
Wow. Really phenomenal article. It summs up exactly what I have long felt about the Progressives. Chris Daly drove a stake into the heart of that movement. Liberals who were disgusted by Brown (and most of us were), looked to the Left for leadership. And they gave us that puling, juvenile naysayer.
And Gavin? He may be slick as snot, but he dove headlong into tough issues like homelessness when WIllie Brown famously said it simply"couldn't be solved" and the Progressives refused to acknowledge that their scattershot approach had not worked in ten years. Quotes in the press by the Coalition for Homelessness made me crazy...
"To voters, it appears progressives would rather fight injustice than stop it."
Exactly.
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11/24/2011 3:08:00 AM
Great piece. Thank you Benjamin Wachs and Joe Eskenazi.
I work with folks who define themselves as pretty liberal and middle-of-the-road.
This is what I saw:
Progressives did themselves a damaging disservice by not clearly enunciating their agenda in terms of land use, zoning, planning.
Without a self-definition, it's left up to voters to define what a progressive is. Usually that definition begins and ends with social issues.
These voters who do not self-identify as progressive also do not see that their views on land use are closely aligned with those of progressives.
They do not see that the more moderate candidates are pro-developer.
Had progressives defined themselves in terms of land use and zoning, they would have captured a lot more votes on SF's West Side while keeping their base.
Thanks again.
~~~~~~~~~
Also:
The page 3 link to West of Twin Peaks Improvement Council is 404.
The correct name is West of Twin Peaks Central Council (WTPCC)
and the link is here:
westoftwinpeaks.org/
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11/24/2011 12:45:00 AM
Great piece. Thank you Benjamin Wachs and Joe Eskenazi.
I work with folks who define themselves as pretty liberal and middle-of-the-road.
This is what I saw:
Progressives did themselves a damaging disservice by not clearly enunciating their agenda in terms of land use, zoning, planning.
Without a self-definition, it's left up to voters to define what a progressive is. Usually that definition begins and ends with social issues.
These voters who do not self-identify as progressive also do not see that their views on land use are closely aligned with those of progressives.
They do not see that the "moderate" candidates are pro-developer.
Had progressives defined themselves in terms of land use and zoning, they would have captured a lot more of these votes and those on SF's West Side while still keeping their base.
Thanks again for the article.
~~~~~~~~~
Also:
The page 3 link to West of Twin Peaks Improvement Council is 404.
The correct name is West of Twin Peaks Central Council (WTPCC)
and the link is here:
http://westoftwinpeaks.org/
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Rebecca 11/24/2011 12:24:00 AM
http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2011/11/23/about-acrimonious-fall
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Paul 11/24/2011 12:23:00 AM
Didn't Chris Daly single handedly bring down the progressive machine by being such an obnoxious windbag? I suppose it works when you're among progressive friends, but it doesn't work for the rest of civilized society.
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11/23/2011 11:44:00 PM
Failing schools, parking fines and tow-aways, merchants fined for sidewalks, paper bags, one party government, city-employees-for-life, ...what's not to like?
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The Commish 11/23/2011 9:48:00 PM
Outstanding article. The reality is that until the City addresses retiree costs -- both healthcare and pensions -- the City won't have enough money to spend on services and programs for which progressives advocate. The progressive group has never articulated a pension reform strategy; I honestly don't think they understand the math or the magnitude of the problem. Don't they ever stop to wonder why we are a City and County of 800,000 people living in a small geographic area with a massive $6.6 billion dollar budget and still face deficits of hundreds of millions? It's because the City has foregone its mission to provide services to residents and instead has become an institution designed to employ people and provide benefits that people in the private sector don't receive.
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yentu 11/23/2011 9:15:00 PM
This article is kind of a mess. What it does well is point out the difficulty for a progressive of winning the mayoral race, the successes of progressives, and some of the failures of progressives. The mayoral race problem has been pointed out a lot - in particular, in every mayoral election.
But (outside of the demographic angle, which is well laid out) the article fails to show how the progressive movement has gotten "worse", and plays pretty loose with what a progressive is. When describing how weak progressives are, Chiu is not one. But when describing how clueless progressives are about the west side, Chiu is one. And Kim, former Green Party member, isn't a progressive?
Seems to me that the progressive movement never had enough power to win mayoral elections, and always was D5, 6, 8 and 9. How has that changed? In fact, you could argue that Mirkarimi's winning was the most impressive City-wide victory for progressives.
So today's progressives aren't Peskin and Daly - two politicians who got some effective things done but also got beaten a lot and had some of the highest negatives ever. Isn't that really the point of the article? Those guys are really good at selling their era as the one in which progressives (incidentally, predominantly white male progressives) were strongest. But is it really true?
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Guest 11/23/2011 9:04:00 PM
Gee, who is going to tell me what things are good (or bad) for me? Will I have to think for myself, and make decisions about my wellbeing? I'm so-o-o-o-o scared....
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Neighbornxdoor 11/23/2011 8:45:00 PM
Love your analogy "But their real problem was running only their favorite plays, in front of their own cheerleaders, not realizing they wouldn't win without moving the ball across the entire field."
They/are us 'progressives' did so much damage to our once beautiful city, while they were playing politics our city went into the toilet. San Francisco's demise started before Mr Brown took office, he was simply riding of the coat tails of earlier politicos. 'They' all just used San Francisco, on their way up the ladder, everyone had their hand in the cookie jar.
Power without accountability leads to the mess we have today.
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11/23/2011 8:21:00 PM
Uh, I am not sure who is really at odds with the current reality of SF - even the guardian is saying a version of what this article is.
This article is as honest a critique of being a progressive in SF that I have ever read.
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11/23/2011 8:15:00 PM
Jeni26 - stating a claim is not stating the truth. You can't argue the election results of the past 4 years, and you can't argue the demographic shifts profiled in the article. Those are realities. What you're discussing is hopes.
If you're going to cite the Guardian, than you should know that they have also discussed the slide of the Progressive movement.
To put this in perspective, in '99 Tom Ammiano got more votes than John Avalos as a WRITE IN candidate. Just think about for a minute... A write in candidate, on a last minute campaign, running on a shoe strong budget that featured homemade signs got more votes than this year's progressive candidate. Not sure how you can be celebrating the state progressives are in.
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Charley_sf 11/23/2011 7:59:00 PM
So, the next act will be another round of Brown Pay to Play as he densifies SOMA, Mission/Market, Van Ness/101, Geary and the Tenderloin--and takes the City to 2 million permanent residents in at least permit entitlements by Jan.2020--when Lee is termed out.
If true, that will probably mean that we will relive the 2001-8 era all over again as we again elect a Board independent of the Brown Machine.
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barkbark 11/23/2011 7:49:00 PM
As a native gay San Franciscan from the Haight, I can safely say it is the only place on earth where having so called "centrist" and reasonable problem solving ideas gets you labeled as a right winger LOL! SF has always been your "last chance USA" destination on the left coast and a kind of freak show for crazy carpetbaggers. But hey, that's the beauty of the place. We wouldn't have had the SF sound or the the Summer of Love without it. WE just need a new Summer of Love because the "progressives" have now become the new party of no to which nothing can be done. That's why they were voted out - people want effective action in their own time.
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marcos 11/23/2011 7:43:00 PM
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/11/progressive-collapse/
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Ace 11/23/2011 6:58:00 PM
I lived in Bernal Heights for many years.
I called my local progressive "comedian" supervisor about an abandoned car. Nothing happened.
I called Da Mayor, the car was towed away within a day.
Guess who got the job done? Da Mayor.
In governing a city, it comes down to filling potholes than delivering ideology.
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11/23/2011 6:54:00 PM
This article is really at odds with the reality in San Francisco. The mayoral election has got the progressive movement more enthusiastic and more unified than at any time since the Gonzalez campaign. The Guardian, as usual, has much better coverage of what is actually going on in San Francisco.
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11/23/2011 6:50:00 PM
Eskenazi is a right-wing hack! Fire his ass!
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lady 11/23/2011 6:17:00 PM
Do the people actually doing work get coverage though? Every f-bomb gets covered, but do important victories? The media plays a huge role in shaping public opinion & pieces like this negate the media's role in covering important victories.
SF recently passed ground breaking legislation protecting women from false advertising from limited service pregnancy centers. Where was the coverage? This was a major victory in a year where women are seriously under attack. (Personhood amendments, HR 358 that allows hospitals to deny women life-saving surgeries, decriminalizing domestic violence in Kansas)
How do you rally people behind causes, get people in the streets when all they see in the media are the problems and don't see coverage of the change grassroots movements can bring?
SF Weekly has a responsibility to cover victories as well as challenges and whether or not you choose to do so either energizes the progressive base or deflates it.
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lady 11/23/2011 6:06:00 PM
Ed Lee is not the progressive's last hope. What a leap.
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Marco 11/23/2011 5:35:00 PM
The progressives made three mistakes: (1) They spent all our money and saved nothing (2) They turned San Francisco into a haven for drug addicts, homeless and crime, and (3) They bullied forward with their agenda without considering the opinions of the majority of San Francisco citizen because, after all, they know what's good for us.
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11/23/2011 3:02:00 PM
Progressives phasing out of SF? #ihopenot